This feels off. Just the hardware configuration doesnt make any sense. The soc will be over 5 years old when this thing releases. Those four a76 cores @ 2,4 Ghz wont wow you with their performance and would be a downgrade compared to a flagship with a SD865 released 5 years ago. Which is alright by its own tbh. But why the fuck combine it with 32gb of ram? Thats just excessive and apart from hyper specific edge cases this just doesnt make any sense. Especially when looking at the eMMC storage. Personally i already find UFS 3.1 painfully slow when it comes to desktopish usecases sometimes. But eMMC is just pure ass.
This is like buying a pre built with a 12100f with 128gb of ram and only harddrives as storage. Like there is probably a really small market for that. But for everybody else it would be just such a bad choice.
The new eMMCs are 400MB/s (so SATA-ish level) with random writes about there as well, it depends what specifically they’ll be using. It’s also more power efficient than SSDs, however it can’t address more than 256GB (so consider SD speeds too).
There also isn’t anything wrong with having a lot of RAM if it doesn’t impact the battery considerably. Which it prob does.
Interesting, didnt know about the current state of eMMC. That would be certainly useable if its the new stuff.
Regarding the ram: Yeah, a lot of ram isnt bad. But it also costs money and i dont feel like that amount of ram in combination with the rest of the hardware is too beneficial. Maybe i lack the creativity but i dont see applications where you need that much of ram and wont be bottlenecked by that 5 year old mid tier mobile SOC. Like my desktop gaming rig has 32gb of ram and current flagship phones still use sometimes just 12gb and go up to 24gb in very rare cases. 32gb just feel imbalenced with the rest of the hardware.
Don’t forget that Linux isn’t isn’t nearly as aggressive as Android in killing background processes, which means RAM is far more likely to stay hanging, and you probably don’t want to be swapping on the eMMC.
fair, but we’re still talking about 32 frigging GB of ram in a phone. not that it should count as a best practice baseline but apple sells 16gb laptops as the entry point and tbf at the moment its just enough and their performance is sitting in a completly different league
ram can be used to heavily compensate for slow read speeds and can make slow memory leaks less of an issue, also with that much you probably don’t need a swap file/partition.
lmao. so you cant give me reason and just post some memes instead. fair enough. idgf. its a cool device. having 32gb of RAM is fucking rad on a phone. but its stupid. its an inbalenced configuration with that weak ass soc. that was my whole point. but you couldnt even prove your point on an academic level.
What are you even talking about? 16GB is plenty for most people’s laptop use cases. What was criminal was when the default was 8GB, but they seem to have stopped that now. In saying that, the pre-built Framework 12 starts at 8GB, though that’s a lot less criminal when it’s not soldered on.
Bus already pointed out about actually having the chance to use the RAM.
In regards to cost - I would be confident they chose what was optimal, you can’t compare this to retail PC market, these are specific b2b deals, they could have literally gotten the 32GB chips significantly cheaper than 16GB.
What I’m not confident is battery usage, 32 giggies will use twice the power (which isn’t a lot but it is all the time, you don’t really turn off RAM) of the exact chip in 16 giggler flavour.
CPU bottlenecking isn’t really RAM related. And I wouldn’t say nowdays 5 year old CPUs are outdated (like a 5yo chip 10 or 15 years ago). I would use my phone much as my PC, so an old CPU but plenty of RAM sounds about what I want.
Also it’s Linux, not some bloated megacorp OS, so it’s a bit better, tho apps remain much the same (eg browsers & web pages).
fair enough, maybe i’m stupid(which i am) but give me a usecase for 32gb of ram. completly disregarding the fact that this thing is a phone. Using it as an desktop device via an usb-c hub. when do you need 32gb of ram involving software which isnt bottlenecked by a 5 year old mobile chip? My 12 core AMD 3900X and my 5800X3d ramp up their cooling fans before my RAM gets maxed out with eg Firefox. C’mon i already admitted that there are edge cases. But this configuration is weird man. Especially considering that linux in itself isnt a ram hog in general.
Oh, I’m not disagreeing with it being weird, my main point was to switch the weirdness towards battery use as nothing else matters.
And CPU doesn’t bottleneck RAM usage.
As for use case (which again, I’m not disagreeing as my main point is “it wouldn’t affect you in any way other than battery” + “they prob went with the cheapest option that still works, just like they did with CPU”), prob apps being fully in RAM and not swap, not closing old apps, etc. So like FF & 3 chat/social media apps (they all have inefficiently big libraries), a few store and service apps (for car/taxi/food delivery/etc), none need to leave RAM. Idk how to get to 32, but perhaps over 16.
And again I point out that it’s just what they did for the project to survive, it’s clearly frankensteined from the cheapest sensible parts. In your analogy the i3 with 32 or 128GB of RAM, if sold at the same price, will preform the same for most users.
Keep the programs in RAM so I can switch between them. Even my Pixel kills the game when I navigate away from it. It just thinks I have way too much shit open. So my phone has 12 GB of RAM and it’s not nearly enough to multitask
This feels off. Just the hardware configuration doesnt make any sense. The soc will be over 5 years old when this thing releases. Those four a76 cores @ 2,4 Ghz wont wow you with their performance and would be a downgrade compared to a flagship with a SD865 released 5 years ago. Which is alright by its own tbh. But why the fuck combine it with 32gb of ram? Thats just excessive and apart from hyper specific edge cases this just doesnt make any sense. Especially when looking at the eMMC storage. Personally i already find UFS 3.1 painfully slow when it comes to desktopish usecases sometimes. But eMMC is just pure ass.
This is like buying a pre built with a 12100f with 128gb of ram and only harddrives as storage. Like there is probably a really small market for that. But for everybody else it would be just such a bad choice.
The new eMMCs are 400MB/s (so SATA-ish level) with random writes about there as well, it depends what specifically they’ll be using. It’s also more power efficient than SSDs, however it can’t address more than 256GB (so consider SD speeds too).
There also isn’t anything wrong with having a lot of RAM if it doesn’t impact the battery considerably. Which it prob does.
Interesting, didnt know about the current state of eMMC. That would be certainly useable if its the new stuff.
Regarding the ram: Yeah, a lot of ram isnt bad. But it also costs money and i dont feel like that amount of ram in combination with the rest of the hardware is too beneficial. Maybe i lack the creativity but i dont see applications where you need that much of ram and wont be bottlenecked by that 5 year old mid tier mobile SOC. Like my desktop gaming rig has 32gb of ram and current flagship phones still use sometimes just 12gb and go up to 24gb in very rare cases. 32gb just feel imbalenced with the rest of the hardware.
Don’t forget that Linux isn’t isn’t nearly as aggressive as Android in killing background processes, which means RAM is far more likely to stay hanging, and you probably don’t want to be swapping on the eMMC.
fair, but we’re still talking about 32 frigging GB of ram in a phone. not that it should count as a best practice baseline but apple sells 16gb laptops as the entry point and tbf at the moment its just enough and their performance is sitting in a completly different league
ram can be used to heavily compensate for slow read speeds and can make slow memory leaks less of an issue, also with that much you probably don’t need a swap file/partition.
Apple selling 16GB laptops is something anyone in the know regards as essentially criminal.
it is. i firmly state: fuck apple. now give me a single reason why an underpowered linux device needs 32gb.
lmao. so you cant give me reason and just post some memes instead. fair enough. idgf. its a cool device. having 32gb of RAM is fucking rad on a phone. but its stupid. its an inbalenced configuration with that weak ass soc. that was my whole point. but you couldnt even prove your point on an academic level.
What are you even talking about? 16GB is plenty for most people’s laptop use cases. What was criminal was when the default was 8GB, but they seem to have stopped that now. In saying that, the pre-built Framework 12 starts at 8GB, though that’s a lot less criminal when it’s not soldered on.
Bus already pointed out about actually having the chance to use the RAM.
In regards to cost - I would be confident they chose what was optimal, you can’t compare this to retail PC market, these are specific b2b deals, they could have literally gotten the 32GB chips significantly cheaper than 16GB.
What I’m not confident is battery usage, 32 giggies will use twice the power (which isn’t a lot but it is all the time, you don’t really turn off RAM) of the exact chip in 16 giggler flavour.
CPU bottlenecking isn’t really RAM related. And I wouldn’t say nowdays 5 year old CPUs are outdated (like a 5yo chip 10 or 15 years ago). I would use my phone much as my PC, so an old CPU but plenty of RAM sounds about what I want.
Also it’s Linux, not some bloated megacorp OS, so it’s a bit better, tho apps remain much the same (eg browsers & web pages).
fair enough, maybe i’m stupid(which i am) but give me a usecase for 32gb of ram. completly disregarding the fact that this thing is a phone. Using it as an desktop device via an usb-c hub. when do you need 32gb of ram involving software which isnt bottlenecked by a 5 year old mobile chip? My 12 core AMD 3900X and my 5800X3d ramp up their cooling fans before my RAM gets maxed out with eg Firefox. C’mon i already admitted that there are edge cases. But this configuration is weird man. Especially considering that linux in itself isnt a ram hog in general.
Oh, I’m not disagreeing with it being weird, my main point was to switch the weirdness towards battery use as nothing else matters.
And CPU doesn’t bottleneck RAM usage.
As for use case (which again, I’m not disagreeing as my main point is “it wouldn’t affect you in any way other than battery” + “they prob went with the cheapest option that still works, just like they did with CPU”), prob apps being fully in RAM and not swap, not closing old apps, etc. So like FF & 3 chat/social media apps (they all have inefficiently big libraries), a few store and service apps (for car/taxi/food delivery/etc), none need to leave RAM. Idk how to get to 32, but perhaps over 16.
And again I point out that it’s just what they did for the project to survive, it’s clearly frankensteined from the cheapest sensible parts. In your analogy the i3 with 32 or 128GB of RAM, if sold at the same price, will preform the same for most users.
Keep the programs in RAM so I can switch between them. Even my Pixel kills the game when I navigate away from it. It just thinks I have way too much shit open. So my phone has 12 GB of RAM and it’s not nearly enough to multitask