Why? The Jews of Israel and the Jews of the Holocaust are in large part wildly unrelated and for the most part camp survivors spoke out against Israel rather coming out for it.
It’s very effective propaganda on their part because most people can’t be bothered to learn facts.
Collective trauma is real. The Jewish people, and the world, should never forget the Holocaust. But when “never again” gets twisted into “never again, for us” it changes the attitude entirely:
I will tell you something about the Holocaust. It would be nice to believe that people who have undergone suffering have been purified by suffering.
But it’s the opposite, it makes them worse. It corrupts. There is something in suffering that creates a kind of egoism. And when such monstrous things have happened to your people, you feel nothing can be compared to it. You get a moral “power of attorney”, a permit to do anything you want – because nothing can compare to what has happened to us. This is a moral immunity which is very clearly felt in Israel.
Uri Avery, speaking after the IDF’s massacre at Sabra and Shatila
Uri was a Zionist poster child - his immediate family fled to (then mandatory Palestine) after the Nazis took power; every other relative who stayed in Germany was murdered in the Holocaust. His life story is incredible to read, and it’s a bitter truth to accept that he was marginalized and ignored by wider Israeli society because of his peace activism later in life.
Yeah, well, that’s why Prejudice and Racism isn’t just presuming bad things about people and acting worse towards them due to their ethnicity, it’s also presuming good things about people and acting better towards them due to their ethnicity - in both cases you’re presuming some are better than others based on things which bare no relation to the worth and character of an individual such as race, gender, sexual orientation and so on.
Just because somebody is a Jew does not mean they’re better or worse than anybody else - it’s their actions and what they support that should guide our judgement of an individual, not something they were born with.
Don’t take this badly, but all this time you’ve been Prejudiced (and one might even say a Racist) even though you probably thought that wasn’t the case (I suspect you believed it was the contrary, even) because it manifested in you assuming good things about people from specific ethnicities and treating them better than others rather than as negative presumptions and treatment (though by assuming some people are, due to their ethnicity, better than others and treating them accordingly, you are actually negatively discriminating against everybody else), and what you’re seeing now, clear as day, is that the bad people within an ethnicity whom you judged better than others purely based on ethnicity, have weaponized that “positive” Racism of yours and of others like you into political and social capital to let them do the same kind of thing as the Nazis did, with impunity and even support from people who if they weren’t prejudiced would’ve judged them more fairly (something which might very well have stopped this Genocide from ever happening).
The best posture, IMHO, is to try and not be prejudicial towards people no matter what their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and so on are, and that includes the kind of prejudice made up of positive presumptions.
You openly stated you have expectations on people based on their ethnicity.
At the very least that’s Prejudice.
It doesn’t take that many words to spot something when people are open about it. For example you can spot a Nazi from a mere two words, the “Heil” and the “Hitler” (for avoidance of doubt I’m not calling you a Nazi).
The rest of my post is really a more general point about how even supposedly “positive” Prejudices are in various ways negative.
Best to avoid having expectations on people you don’t know personally based on their ethnicity, even “positive” ones.
My ex girlfriend is Jewish. I have spent time with (checks notes) a fuck ton of Jewish people. I watched the fucking rubble of 9/11 burn from Long Island. The fall was unseasonably warm that year.
You should probably not make snap judgements about people you know nothing about.
Are you trying to pass the impression you’re a full-blown Racist!?
First, were the fuck did that “rubble of 9/11” shit came from? How exactly does it relate to you having presumptions about Jewish People? Is that some kind of indirect way of saying that Muslims are bad hence Jews are good (which would definitely be full blown Racism)??? Is it trying to say “I’m a born and bred New Yorker” without actually saying so whilst trying somehow to claim an Authoritative position on the matter of the character of entire races because you saw the result of a Terrorist attack??? Seriously, what the fuck was that!?
Second, you can’t make assumptions about an entire ethnicity from those in your social circle from that ethnicity being good people. You’re describing textbook racial Prejudice: you know from where you live some people who belong to a certain ethnicity and they’re X, Y, Z -> hence you expect the whole ethnicity (in the whole fucking World, no less) is X, Y, Z. That’s really not how race operates, even when it’s an ethnicity with a shared religion - people’s character is not defined by their ethnicity.
I mean, if you expect that people living in the Middle East (specifically Israel), who grew up in an entirely different environment (the very opposite of multi-cultural New York) seeped in relentless Racist messaging from the Press and Politicians (think Southern US during the time of the Jim Crow Laws, but worse) are good people based only on having the same religion and ethnic origin as your ex-girlfriend and other Jews you spent time with in New York, then I have a water crossing piece of realestate to sell you and as it so happens it’s right there in New York.
Let me put things like this: I’ve lived in Holland for almost a decade and have a pretty good impression of the Dutch in general and Dutch culture and social posture, yet I refrain from expecting that all Dutch are good people (they most definitely come in all kinds) and, even further, refrain from expecting that the Afrikaner (Dutch colonists that moved to South Africa a few centuries ago and the ones behind Apartheid) are good people. Absolutely, there’s a natural tendency to expect good things from people from the same ethnic groups as those you know well who are good people, and it’s bullshit because that’s not how things work, and I sure as hell am not going to presume good things about Elon Musk because him being an Afrikaner and I somehow deriving from my experience of living in Holland being pretty good an expectation that all people from the same ethnic branch are good people.
It boggles my mind every day that a fucking Jew would commit genocide. Goddamn.
Zionists are the rich jews who paid the Nazis for their right to bail and leave their fellow Jews to die
There’s assholes everywhere. A religion, ethnicity, origin, gender, sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.
An asshole is gonna be an asshole.
The thing is, most people in a genocide-supporting time, place and group support genocide. So humans are mostly assholes, by that definition.
I don’t know if OP meant Israelis or Netanyahu specifically, though.
No, I know they were talking about Netanyahu specifically.
Why? The Jews of Israel and the Jews of the Holocaust are in large part wildly unrelated and for the most part camp survivors spoke out against Israel rather coming out for it.
It’s very effective propaganda on their part because most people can’t be bothered to learn facts.
Conservatives are literally all the same.
Collective trauma is real. The Jewish people, and the world, should never forget the Holocaust. But when “never again” gets twisted into “never again, for us” it changes the attitude entirely:
Uri Avery, speaking after the IDF’s massacre at Sabra and Shatila
Uri was a Zionist poster child - his immediate family fled to (then mandatory Palestine) after the Nazis took power; every other relative who stayed in Germany was murdered in the Holocaust. His life story is incredible to read, and it’s a bitter truth to accept that he was marginalized and ignored by wider Israeli society because of his peace activism later in life.
Not Our Jew. He’s been kicked out of the Tribe.
Yeah, well, that’s why Prejudice and Racism isn’t just presuming bad things about people and acting worse towards them due to their ethnicity, it’s also presuming good things about people and acting better towards them due to their ethnicity - in both cases you’re presuming some are better than others based on things which bare no relation to the worth and character of an individual such as race, gender, sexual orientation and so on.
Just because somebody is a Jew does not mean they’re better or worse than anybody else - it’s their actions and what they support that should guide our judgement of an individual, not something they were born with.
Don’t take this badly, but all this time you’ve been Prejudiced (and one might even say a Racist) even though you probably thought that wasn’t the case (I suspect you believed it was the contrary, even) because it manifested in you assuming good things about people from specific ethnicities and treating them better than others rather than as negative presumptions and treatment (though by assuming some people are, due to their ethnicity, better than others and treating them accordingly, you are actually negatively discriminating against everybody else), and what you’re seeing now, clear as day, is that the bad people within an ethnicity whom you judged better than others purely based on ethnicity, have weaponized that “positive” Racism of yours and of others like you into political and social capital to let them do the same kind of thing as the Nazis did, with impunity and even support from people who if they weren’t prejudiced would’ve judged them more fairly (something which might very well have stopped this Genocide from ever happening).
The best posture, IMHO, is to try and not be prejudicial towards people no matter what their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and so on are, and that includes the kind of prejudice made up of positive presumptions.
I’m… not racist? I’m also not reading all of this. You make a lot of assumptions for someone that read three sentences.
You openly stated you have expectations on people based on their ethnicity.
At the very least that’s Prejudice.
It doesn’t take that many words to spot something when people are open about it. For example you can spot a Nazi from a mere two words, the “Heil” and the “Hitler” (for avoidance of doubt I’m not calling you a Nazi).
The rest of my post is really a more general point about how even supposedly “positive” Prejudices are in various ways negative.
Best to avoid having expectations on people you don’t know personally based on their ethnicity, even “positive” ones.
My ex girlfriend is Jewish. I have spent time with (checks notes) a fuck ton of Jewish people. I watched the fucking rubble of 9/11 burn from Long Island. The fall was unseasonably warm that year.
You should probably not make snap judgements about people you know nothing about.
Go touch grass.
Are you trying to pass the impression you’re a full-blown Racist!?
First, were the fuck did that “rubble of 9/11” shit came from? How exactly does it relate to you having presumptions about Jewish People? Is that some kind of indirect way of saying that Muslims are bad hence Jews are good (which would definitely be full blown Racism)??? Is it trying to say “I’m a born and bred New Yorker” without actually saying so whilst trying somehow to claim an Authoritative position on the matter of the character of entire races because you saw the result of a Terrorist attack??? Seriously, what the fuck was that!?
Second, you can’t make assumptions about an entire ethnicity from those in your social circle from that ethnicity being good people. You’re describing textbook racial Prejudice: you know from where you live some people who belong to a certain ethnicity and they’re X, Y, Z -> hence you expect the whole ethnicity (in the whole fucking World, no less) is X, Y, Z. That’s really not how race operates, even when it’s an ethnicity with a shared religion - people’s character is not defined by their ethnicity.
I mean, if you expect that people living in the Middle East (specifically Israel), who grew up in an entirely different environment (the very opposite of multi-cultural New York) seeped in relentless Racist messaging from the Press and Politicians (think Southern US during the time of the Jim Crow Laws, but worse) are good people based only on having the same religion and ethnic origin as your ex-girlfriend and other Jews you spent time with in New York, then I have a water crossing piece of realestate to sell you and as it so happens it’s right there in New York.
Let me put things like this: I’ve lived in Holland for almost a decade and have a pretty good impression of the Dutch in general and Dutch culture and social posture, yet I refrain from expecting that all Dutch are good people (they most definitely come in all kinds) and, even further, refrain from expecting that the Afrikaner (Dutch colonists that moved to South Africa a few centuries ago and the ones behind Apartheid) are good people. Absolutely, there’s a natural tendency to expect good things from people from the same ethnic groups as those you know well who are good people, and it’s bullshit because that’s not how things work, and I sure as hell am not going to presume good things about Elon Musk because him being an Afrikaner and I somehow deriving from my experience of living in Holland being pretty good an expectation that all people from the same ethnic branch are good people.
Sorry, two sentences.
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