• ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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    4 days ago

    aiding impulsive suicidal thoughts

    It would be aiding with suicidal thoughts, even if those thoughts are not necessarily impulsive

    • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca
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      4 days ago

      That’s a good point, but I think it’s where I think you need someone with intimate knowledge of the situation to decide.

        • iamthetot@piefed.ca
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          3 days ago

          Denying someone MAID is also deciding if the person should live or die. You just don’t like the “or die” part of that decision.

          • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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            3 days ago

            You are correct. I don’t trust people to decide when other people should die.

            • iamthetot@piefed.ca
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              3 days ago

              You are missing the point. You are doing that right now. You are deciding that they shouldn’t die now, but later. You are deciding when other people should die.

              • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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                3 days ago

                By that logic I am deciding when an arbitrary number of people die by choosing not to kill them. I guess theres a sense in which thats technically correct, but it seems like its stretching the terminology a bit

                • iamthetot@piefed.ca
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                  3 days ago

                  Not at all. The default stance would be “I do not care one way or the other if someone has access to MAID.”

                  By taking a stance against MAID, you are in fact deciding that they should not be able to die now. No one is asking you to personally do the killing, but you take umbrage with the idea that it would be accessible to people, so you are therefore deciding that they should be die now, but later.

                  • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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                    3 days ago

                    We already have a very dysfunctional healthcare system. It’s a real concern that people might turn to MAID because they cannot access healthcare. The article linked above cites at least one example of this. I think this concern is even greater with mental health cases, since our mental healthcare system is even more dysfunctional. Why are we offering MAID for people with mental health issues when we can barely offer proper healthcare for people with mental health issues? That’s a legitimate concern. If you want to frame that concern as me being as a nosey person who wants people to live in suffering then you can, but that’s not a very productive way to hold this conversation.

              • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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                4 days ago

                My phrasing provides an accurate description of the situation. Perhaps you think it’s skimming over some nuance. But I’m phrasing it that way to draw attention to what kind of decision it is. I’m not sure if it’s a decision anyone should really be making outside of a wartime triage situation.

                • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca
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                  4 days ago

                  I never said it was a decision for just anyone or an easy one. I said it’s a decision that requires context and nuance.

                  It’s like deciding who gets donated organs, when does a doctor declare brain death, when do you shut off the machines or give a large morphine dose, etc.

                  They’re hard decisions. They need to be made with care.

                  • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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                    4 days ago

                    They need to be made with care.

                    This implies that we need to make these decisions. The other decisions you listed are decisions that we need to make. But who receives medical decision in dying is not a decision we need to make. That’s a decision we choose to make.

                • WizardGed@lemmy.ca
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                  4 days ago

                  except it doesn’t just because maid has been authorized it automatically happens. that decision is as it has always been placed with the one asking for it.

                  • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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                    4 days ago

                    That’s true, but it doesn’t contradict what I’m saying. The person making the decision is the patient, but someone does need to authorize it. And in authorizing it/not authorizing it, that physician is quite literally making a decision about who lives and dies.

                    I’m not really in the mood to keep going in circles about this.