Eh, their argument is that children vaping leads to nicotine addiction leads to smoking. It’s not a great argument, but it’s not entirely without merit. Someone who is using vaping as a more healthy alternative to smoking is already accustomed to the flavor of cigarettes. Flavored vapes aren’t necessary for the smoker to switch.
Nicotine juice has been flavored from the very start. Way back in the day when premixed juices didn’t even exist and vapers - who were pretty much exclusively smokers looking for a safer alternative - had to buy propylene glycol and nicotine extract and mix it themselves, we also bought flavoring, because the simple fact of the matter is that unflavored nicotine juice doesn’t taste like cigarettes - it tastes sorr of like hand sanitizer mixed with ear wax.
This whole uproar about flavored vapes is a bizarre fiction being promoted by busybody assholes and idiots - by crusading fuckwads using something they self-evidently know absolutely nothing about to feed their desperate and pathetic need to feel self-righteous.
After thirty years of trying and failing to quit smoking, vaping is almost certainly the only reason I’m alive today, and these foul busybody shitbags want to ruin that for me and everyone else in the same position, and bluntly, fuck them. They’re fucking scum.
I kind of love how you acknowledge how addictive nicotine is, yet can’t fathom tobacco companies, the same people who lied to their customers for decades to keep their industry afloat, making products specifically to entice new users at an easily suggestible stage in their life.
It’s not that I “can’t fathom” it as that I know that it’s complete snd total bullshit.
Tobacco companies didn’t invent vsping - ordinary people did. And tobacco companies didn’t originate the idea of flavoring it - the same ordinary people did. We did it because we prefer it that way.
And then years later, some bunch of self-righteous twats who know absolutely nothing about yhe actial history of ot come stumbling along and start blathering a bunch of fucking nonsense about the evil tobacvo companies flavoring juice to enticevkids.
Motherfucker - I was flavoring juice myself when tobacco companies didn’t even know vaping existed - when it was just a handful of people on a forum experimenting with attaching homemade nichrome coils to modified flashlights.
So don’t fucking presume to tell me what I can or can’t “fathom.”
So, if can only assume that you don’t believe tobacco companies did the other things they did because North Americans were growing, drying, and smoking tobacco for thousands of years before those companies came into existence.
Everything you described is what happens when niche hobbies become mainstream. That doesn’t mean malicious organizations can’t see the potential for profit and engage in predatory practices. And it doesn’t mean that something that wasn’t particularly harmful to society can’t become harmful when it goes from a niche activity to something mainstream and commercialized.
Sweet response that addressed almost nothing they said and only chose to condescend to them. Are cigarettes unflavored? Because I sure preferred that taste and only continue to not smoke because I enjoy vaping fruity flavours, and know that it’s better for me than smoking. And hell yeah, let’s get rid of one use devices and bring back RDAs, RDTAs and all the other stuff that initially helped me quit smoking, and then let’s further legislate and ban the sale of vapes from gas stations and crack down on vape shops who sell to minors. Bet you that works a lot better than anything you’d suggest.
And then the people whose evils you’re screeching about monetized the shit out of it, specifically to hook children.
Again.
The industry is not “a handful of people on a forum,” anymore. Elementary schools have anti-vaping policies. The thing you keep calling people monsters for talking about, actually fucking happened.
The shit this guy spits at petitioners is beyond belief, but the fact everyone’s with him is incomprehensible. All over some shit he acknowledges he can just do in his kitchen, without commercial support, using the drugs nobody’s talking about banning.
Meanwhile any implication of ‘would you have wanted someone to prevent your addiction?’ goes totally unanswered.
Well, a part of me just wants to watch the world burn, and this and posts like it sate that desire. It’s also a good reminder to use Voyager’s tags so I remember this guy if we cross paths again.
I think there is a big difference in the appeal of vapes to younger audiences when we account for the flavors. Tobacco and other boring flavors are great for quiting. An arrary of sweet and fruity flavors make people want to try more flavors and also vape more frequently because the brain is itching for that hit of sweetness as well as hits of nicotine.
Fair enough, I’ve never vaped. I quit smoking cold turkey 20 years ago, before vapes became popular. Quitting was fucking hell, and I don’t begrudge anyone whatever tools or transitions help them manage the process. I never recommend anyone quit cold turkey, because I know first hand what a nightmare it was.
My only point is that the manufacturers of nicotine products do not have your best interests at heart. They want to keep you addicted, and get new people addicted. If they could make a product that delivered nicotine and tickled your genitals at the same time, they would.
With less appealing flavors, it might help people like yourself reduce your nicotine intake. Smell and taste are strongly linked to the neurological pathways for pleasure and memory.
When I smoked, a friend of mine would frequently smoke cloves, and so when I was quitting the smell of vanilla or spices would make me crave a cigarette. Associating nicotine with certain flavors will make you crave nicotine when you smell or taste those flavors. Making it less pleasurable over time would reduce cravings.
Either way, if your goal is to stop, then flavors aren’t helpful.
With vaping, and self mixing your own juice, you can control the nicotine content. I found it very useful in weaning myself off cigarettes, primarily the nicotine. I also found it helpful in not eating sweet junk food. Was well on my way to also ditching vaping when the Australian gov’t decided to blanket ban Vaping. I’m back at square one, craving sugar and nicotine. sigh
I did agree with some of the controls put in - not in public/shared spaces, not for kids, etc. But a total ban? That only creates a black market and a shiny for kids who want to rebel.
Vaping is a generational tragedy for everyone except relics like you. If not for vapes then smoking would have basically just ended. Rate of new smokers were plummeting. Aaand then some tobacco subsidiaries got their hooks into kids of all ages.
They didn’t do it by promising the taste of hand sanitizer and earwax.
And you’re getting big mad that they want nicotine to taste like nicotine, rather than bubblegum. We’re not even talking about banning nicotine juices. Just the flavors. Y’know, the same way you can still buy cigarettes; just not the kind that taste like mint. Vaping beats smoking by such a huge margin that essentially nobody is talking about banning vaping. Everyone knows it would be self-defeating. So why are you being such an edgelord about this strawman idea that everyone’s gonna switch to cigarettes that cost more, taste worse, and physically hurt to use?
Eh, their argument is that children vaping leads to nicotine addiction leads to smoking. It’s not a great argument, but it’s not entirely without merit. Someone who is using vaping as a more healthy alternative to smoking is already accustomed to the flavor of cigarettes. Flavored vapes aren’t necessary for the smoker to switch.
Nicotine juice has been flavored from the very start. Way back in the day when premixed juices didn’t even exist and vapers - who were pretty much exclusively smokers looking for a safer alternative - had to buy propylene glycol and nicotine extract and mix it themselves, we also bought flavoring, because the simple fact of the matter is that unflavored nicotine juice doesn’t taste like cigarettes - it tastes sorr of like hand sanitizer mixed with ear wax.
This whole uproar about flavored vapes is a bizarre fiction being promoted by busybody assholes and idiots - by crusading fuckwads using something they self-evidently know absolutely nothing about to feed their desperate and pathetic need to feel self-righteous.
After thirty years of trying and failing to quit smoking, vaping is almost certainly the only reason I’m alive today, and these foul busybody shitbags want to ruin that for me and everyone else in the same position, and bluntly, fuck them. They’re fucking scum.
@WatDabney @themeatbridge
You got it right!
I went from Skoal to those home-brew vape juices when…about 2010 or 11. Hardly vaped, just put it on a pad under my lip.
Hated the taste of burning cigarettes, loved some of those fruit flavours. Finally my drug tasted good. Flavour for an old man, not the kids.
Quit 3 years ago and still crave. Horrible time. Quit alcohol 15 years ago with less problems. But quitting is just terrible, no matter the drug.
Somebody who hasn’t struggled with addiction doesn’t get much cred in these discussions, from me.
Yeah, maybe we should focus on preventing addiction in the first place.
Somehow.
I kind of love how you acknowledge how addictive nicotine is, yet can’t fathom tobacco companies, the same people who lied to their customers for decades to keep their industry afloat, making products specifically to entice new users at an easily suggestible stage in their life.
It’s not that I “can’t fathom” it as that I know that it’s complete snd total bullshit.
Tobacco companies didn’t invent vsping - ordinary people did. And tobacco companies didn’t originate the idea of flavoring it - the same ordinary people did. We did it because we prefer it that way.
And then years later, some bunch of self-righteous twats who know absolutely nothing about yhe actial history of ot come stumbling along and start blathering a bunch of fucking nonsense about the evil tobacvo companies flavoring juice to enticevkids.
Motherfucker - I was flavoring juice myself when tobacco companies didn’t even know vaping existed - when it was just a handful of people on a forum experimenting with attaching homemade nichrome coils to modified flashlights.
So don’t fucking presume to tell me what I can or can’t “fathom.”
So, if can only assume that you don’t believe tobacco companies did the other things they did because North Americans were growing, drying, and smoking tobacco for thousands of years before those companies came into existence.
Everything you described is what happens when niche hobbies become mainstream. That doesn’t mean malicious organizations can’t see the potential for profit and engage in predatory practices. And it doesn’t mean that something that wasn’t particularly harmful to society can’t become harmful when it goes from a niche activity to something mainstream and commercialized.
Care to explain how your vaping experience would be lessened if the device didn’t look like a children’s toy? Or why they should be allowed to be advertised on TV? Also mentioned in those links, about 15% of youths vape with unflavored products. If they can do it these days, I’m sure you’ll be able to handle it, too.
Sweet response that addressed almost nothing they said and only chose to condescend to them. Are cigarettes unflavored? Because I sure preferred that taste and only continue to not smoke because I enjoy vaping fruity flavours, and know that it’s better for me than smoking. And hell yeah, let’s get rid of one use devices and bring back RDAs, RDTAs and all the other stuff that initially helped me quit smoking, and then let’s further legislate and ban the sale of vapes from gas stations and crack down on vape shops who sell to minors. Bet you that works a lot better than anything you’d suggest.
And then the people whose evils you’re screeching about monetized the shit out of it, specifically to hook children.
Again.
The industry is not “a handful of people on a forum,” anymore. Elementary schools have anti-vaping policies. The thing you keep calling people monsters for talking about, actually fucking happened.
This whole thread is fucking wild.
Yeah, I was waiting to reply with, “If you prioritize your convenience over harm to children, just own it.” But all I got was downvotes.
The shit this guy spits at petitioners is beyond belief, but the fact everyone’s with him is incomprehensible. All over some shit he acknowledges he can just do in his kitchen, without commercial support, using the drugs nobody’s talking about banning.
Meanwhile any implication of ‘would you have wanted someone to prevent your addiction?’ goes totally unanswered.
Well, a part of me just wants to watch the world burn, and this and posts like it sate that desire. It’s also a good reminder to use Voyager’s tags so I remember this guy if we cross paths again.
I think there is a big difference in the appeal of vapes to younger audiences when we account for the flavors. Tobacco and other boring flavors are great for quiting. An arrary of sweet and fruity flavors make people want to try more flavors and also vape more frequently because the brain is itching for that hit of sweetness as well as hits of nicotine.
Fair enough, I’ve never vaped. I quit smoking cold turkey 20 years ago, before vapes became popular. Quitting was fucking hell, and I don’t begrudge anyone whatever tools or transitions help them manage the process. I never recommend anyone quit cold turkey, because I know first hand what a nightmare it was.
My only point is that the manufacturers of nicotine products do not have your best interests at heart. They want to keep you addicted, and get new people addicted. If they could make a product that delivered nicotine and tickled your genitals at the same time, they would.
With less appealing flavors, it might help people like yourself reduce your nicotine intake. Smell and taste are strongly linked to the neurological pathways for pleasure and memory.
When I smoked, a friend of mine would frequently smoke cloves, and so when I was quitting the smell of vanilla or spices would make me crave a cigarette. Associating nicotine with certain flavors will make you crave nicotine when you smell or taste those flavors. Making it less pleasurable over time would reduce cravings.
Either way, if your goal is to stop, then flavors aren’t helpful.
With vaping, and self mixing your own juice, you can control the nicotine content. I found it very useful in weaning myself off cigarettes, primarily the nicotine. I also found it helpful in not eating sweet junk food. Was well on my way to also ditching vaping when the Australian gov’t decided to blanket ban Vaping. I’m back at square one, craving sugar and nicotine. sigh
I did agree with some of the controls put in - not in public/shared spaces, not for kids, etc. But a total ban? That only creates a black market and a shiny for kids who want to rebel.
Vaping is a generational tragedy for everyone except relics like you. If not for vapes then smoking would have basically just ended. Rate of new smokers were plummeting. Aaand then some tobacco subsidiaries got their hooks into kids of all ages.
They didn’t do it by promising the taste of hand sanitizer and earwax.
And you’re getting big mad that they want nicotine to taste like nicotine, rather than bubblegum. We’re not even talking about banning nicotine juices. Just the flavors. Y’know, the same way you can still buy cigarettes; just not the kind that taste like mint. Vaping beats smoking by such a huge margin that essentially nobody is talking about banning vaping. Everyone knows it would be self-defeating. So why are you being such an edgelord about this strawman idea that everyone’s gonna switch to cigarettes that cost more, taste worse, and physically hurt to use?
Why would vaping have to lead to smoking for nicotine addiction to be bad?
Going from smoking to vaping is a massive improvement. Basically zero downsides.
Starting a nicotine addiction is still detrimental to your health.