You got a one day ban for direct personal attacks. Once again: people complaining about .ml “censoring” them are always just people mad that the rules got enforced on them when they’re used to the mods giving them a parse for having the same politics

“i made a post breaking the rules, and it got removed, even though I was replying to someone I consider a bad person, this is an outrage!”

Sounds like you’re too used to reddit

Edit: and your comment wasnt fucking “disagreeing”, it was literally just you throwing insults, you dishonest scumbag

This is straight up misinformation. For a start, UK and Poland are both European, and for another, a huge number of other European countries sent troops to Iraq, and you’re straight up lying to say otherwise.

they didn’t actively oppose it meaningfully

This is straight up genocide denial now. Europe actively, rhetorically, and materially supported (and continues to support) the Palestinian genocide and the fascist ethno state carrying it out. The disgusting fake narrative that Europe were just this uninvolved third party who meant well but were too cautious to take action is Genocide Apologist Bullshit.

I think you are also treating every western action as if europe personally designed it

Nope, I’m just referring to the actions that Europe enthusiasticly supported and engaged in.

when in reality europe’s record is more mixed

No more mixed than Russia; but for some reason (chauvanism), you only engage in this kind of equivocation for Europe.

It has responsibility for serious failures

And that’s the true hypocrisy of Europeans on display: other countries do bad things, but Europe just is “responsible” for “failures”. It’s not that Europe deliberately went out and did something bad, they’re the good guys, after all! They were just trying to do the right thing and unfortunately failed!

It’s disgustingly self serving. And solidly demonstrates my point.

but in most recent cases it was not the main driver.

And in many cases it was. Not that it matters that it “wasn’t the main driver” when it still enthusiasticly participated and supported these actions. “Sure I helped operate the gas chambers, but they weren’t my idea, I’m just a smol bean!”

In lots of others, like iraq or afghanistan (or the US’s overall middle east approach), european states mostly followed the US out of strategic dependence rather than some unified desire to dominate the world.

You would never in a million years attempt to make these kinds of disgusting excuses for anyone except Europe, and you know it. This is the break is hypocrisy and you know it. Russia also has it’s strategic reasons for invading Ukraine, famously, but I’m betting you don’t find that compelling. You only find my compelling when it’s Europe going “we had to help commit genocide, it was in our interests!”

but it does mean europe isn’t operating on the same logic as russia,

Actually it means they operating on the exact same logic.

which treats territorial expansion as a central political project.

And Europe treats global domination by Western capitalist hegemony as a central political project, which is much worse.

That’a why I separate western crimes from the structure of the political systems behind them.

Yes, I’ve already noted that you hold a complete double standard. Now you’re just coming out and saying it.

Europe has elections that can actually change governments

Bullshit: your elections are tightly run on rails to make sure that noone other than some flavor of liberal capitalist can win. Any time a serious leftist party becomes viable, it gets banned, or worse, all of the information people need to make informed decisions is filtered through media owned by oligarchs, and, must importantly of all; the people Europe fucks over the most don’t get to participate in your bullshit elections. If Russians voted to invade Ukraine, would that be ok? They basically did; Putin is extremely popular, and all of the most popular opposition politicians also support the war in Ukraine. This is not at all different to Europes genocidal brutalization of the middle east.

courts that can and sometimes do push back,

Europe has not prosecuted a single one of its genocidal war criminals. Not one; most of them still walk around as prominent national figures. They’re putting Tony Fucking Blaire in charge of Gaza.

and protests that occasionally work

In the sense that Europeans will express the against something they were after it has happened, just not in a way where they will compensate the victims or not do it again.

which is exactly why those policies deserve criticism, but

Stop. Stop this gross double standard. You would never in a million years do this for anyone other than Europe

but it still gives european citizens real levers to pressure their own governments.

Oh ok. That’s much worse. That means that European citizens in general are responsible for the modern Holocaust they support. That makes Europe much worse than Russia.

Oh, but it makes you personally feel empowered, and you only give a shit any your personal interests, as I pointed out earlier.

Russia superglues those levers in place.

As opposed to Europe, where those levers are consistently fixed in the same place as Russia, but allegedly the citizens could move them if they chose to, but they don’t. Which, again, is much worse.

Opposition is criminalised

Like every viable leftist party in European history.

media is destroyed

As opposed to simply giving oligarchs direct control of it, like Europe does.

and elections are for show.

Yeah, real elections are when you can choose between two ghoulish capitalists with the same genocidal foreign policy. And the people you exterminate aren’t allowed to participate at all.

That is not a small difference

Correct, it’s not a small difference: it’s no difference at all.

but it still gives european citizens real levers to pressure their own governments.

I’m sure that means so much to the people of Iraq and Palestine. The people of the imperial core choose to exterminate them. This is just straight up white supremacy: genocidal violence isn’t as bad if white people get to vote to commit it.

So for me it is not about excusing the west or pretending europe is ‘moral’.

Yes it is: you’ve demonstrated a whole sale double standard in the standard you apply so that you can excuse the West. A double standard of, essentially, “it benefits me personally, so it’s brutalization of foreigners is not as bad”

It is simply that western hypocrisy does not magically turn russia’s invasion into something justified or admirable.

Literally no one ever said it did, as I already fucking told you

I can condemn Iraq, Libya, Gaza and still condemn a war aimed at erasing a neighbour.

Would you advocate for Russia retaliating against Europe for it’s genocidal actions in Ha a, just as you advocate for Europe retaliating against Russia for its invasion of Ukraine? No, of course you wouldn’t: you reserve that status of moral world police for Europe, because you have a double standard and do not actually condemn Iraq, Libya, and Gaza in the same way you condemn Russia. Even though what Europe is supporting in Palestine is even worse than the invasion of Ukraine, you treat it differently. It’s just an “oopsie”, a failure to live up the superior platonic European mortality you treat as axiomatic.

That is not loyalty to Europe, it is just refusing the idea that one set of atrocities cancels out another.

No, the loyalty to Europe is the gross double standard and the implication that Russian atrocities cancel out Europes worse atrocities.

Western countries have absolutely earned a lot of the criticism they get.

Yup, for instance they’ve earned the critism that they have no business claiming their opposition to Russia has anything to do with principles or morality.

None of that makes Russian aggression suddenly noble. Pointing out Western hypocrisy doesn’t magically turn Putin into a principled anti-imperialist.

Never said it did, so I can only assume you’re saying this to attack a strawman.

He’s running an authoritarian system that jails dissent, murders critics and wages a war built on territorial revanchism complete with deliberately targeting civilians.

Which are all things that Europe both do and support when it’s them and their allies doing it. What is your point?

If I have to choose between flawed democracies with internal pressure valves, independent courts and protest movements

All things that Europe emphatically does not represent when it comes to the middle east. Millions of Iraqis, Libyan, and Palestinians did not get to vote in your shitty rigged elections or get protected by your biased, billionaire owned courts when Europe decided to massacre them.

For that matter, Europe doesn’t even grant those things domestically to people with actual leftist politics; the moment an actual leftist party attains any real viability, it’s getting banned and it’s leaders arrested. The moment you try to an effective protest movement that might actually affect change, you’re getting beaten and arrested by armored storm troopers.

then I’ll stick to pushing the countries and systems I’m actually part of to live up to their ideals.

And by that you mean,: spruik them as righteous world police while demonizing their geopolitical enemies. You haven’t achieved one iota of movement in pushing them to live up to their ideals and you’ve already moved on to declaring how much better they are then their enemies.

Let’s be honest here; you’re support for Europe comes from the fact that you personally benefit from their policies, not because their policies are more beneficial in general.

Hypocrisy is a problem, but open militaristic authoritarianism is way worse.

Mate, the hypocrisy is Europe’s open support for militaristic authoritarianism! See, this is what I mean; you don’t think open militaristic authoritarianism is a problem when Europe does it; you just don’t like that the hypocrisy undermines Europe’s self-granted Mandate from Heaven.

The answer to western failures isn’t to excuse someone else’s.

No one said it was, though you seem to be saying that the answer to Russian failures is to excuse the West.

Oh my God. Please tell me you’re a teenager and not an adult who thinks any of this pablum is wise or profound.

Sounds like you need to keep better company

Things are seldom black and white in this world, pure good and pure evil do not exsist. Is it easier for you to see things in absolutes?

Jesus, you’re really doubling down on the unthinking and insipid takes.

I think it’s not so much him as a person

Gates is in the Epstein files.

Shitlibs complain about .ml censoring them and then when you actually look it’s them getting a comment removed (not even a ban) for calling people evil Russians and telling them to kill themselves

Fucking Europeans are in no position to complain about other countries grabbing land by force and getting away with it. It’s rank hypocrisy to act like the antipathy to Russia has anything to do with principled opposition to “bullying neighbours” or “making the region less safe” when Europe is still shoveling money at Israel, protecting the people who butchered Iraq, Libya, Syria, and plenty more, and never found an American invasion they didn’t support until they realized it might negatively affect them.

Did you reply to the wrong comment?

And why would they not do that again?

Lol. Ok, bigot, sorry we can’t keep up with your genius reasoning like: “slurs are ok, because language is just a social construct!”

Ok, you bigoted piece of shit.

That was my point, genius.

So now you’ve shifted to the position of “slurs are fine because language is, like, just made up, maaaan.”

Found Ben Shapiro’s Lemmy account

“There’s nothing wrong with being Jewish or having a big nose, so calling someone a Big-Nosed Jew as an insult isn’t bigoted!”

Least obviously disingenuous bigot.

Yeah, definitely no significant history to those…