sous-merde

Seems like you either slept ~4 hours or didn’t at all ^^"
Here’s the modlog just in case, it can be hard to find(, or even absent,) if you’re searching for it on a mobile app : https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=23021351
Bye !

(Addition : As an aside, perhaps that like me you’d have preferred to know who downvotes//upvotes your comments, just know that it was the devs’ intention, partly because of astroturfing, but the community refused)

(pfff, he’s been banned from futurology.today for ban evasion, what a stupid reason, and i didn’t know that in that case we can’t see his comments, here’s what i had before the ban)

Some last additions :
https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqs9q2w57rp7lmkwtstd6ahe4jzp0r7exwtsegqfjm603yk3myam93gzvfgh0

3 likes and one retweet, unusual for his account, and indeed a very different reception from here : https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsyar8c3tjww0rpzawez7ged7gsnrvtamlrc4jqpwkwc8tr7jestpgtd2pqt

And also, perhaps :

Seems like there’s one more thing to add, a video published a few hours ago, reporting on the laws against hate speech, once more (ab)used to censor political dissent : https://youtu.be/1AiZQriMkDM
Some people will blame Youtube/Google, others our governments.

I don’t have an access to everything from your account, which wasn’t that big, including your inbox and possible private messages, but i made a copy of your comments and posts if you’re interested : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aA8MU4ToqNwKQb3RyW6W77FtNFOei6Rl
It’s in .json, and i don’t know of an existing lemmy viewer that accepts a .json(, excepting the app i’m making obv.), but if you’re like me you’d perhaps like to keep an archive of what you wrote, somewhere on your ‘hard drive’/cloud.
(Good to know if you didn’t that admins have a command to “purge” accounts, which shouldn’t be your case since it was a temporary ban, but when your account is purged no-one can ever recover its content anymore, which may suck depending on whether the user cares about h.er.is posts/comments)

The principle behind trolling is that we can never be sure, but it’s possible that Skavau ragebaited you into getting you banned, we know that he reported you many times(, on his own admission), and he’s kinda implying that he had a goal in mind here
Like, it’s probably not the case here, but it’s common knowledge that as soon as the 90s, e.g. on m.m.o. forums, users realized that they won’t get banned for gaslighting another user, and if the other user ends up throwing an insult, then s.he will get a temporary ban which could affect h.er.is ingame character(, moderators of that forum were usually paid). So you have players that are now recounting with nostalgia how they managed to get multiple players banned with a single “it’s a skill issue”, or something along these lines.
Anyway, next time perhaps don’t try to have the last word with him, your anger is sometimes a bit painful to read, and getting downvoted even for good comments(, because some people followed you from another comment or post,) is never a pleasant experience, everyone seeks some amount of social validation as you already know 🤷, not that you seem weak enough to be affected

I’ve quickly looked for instances that explicitly claim that they’ll never ban their users, even temporarily, but haven’t found it, there were more than 700 of them at one point, and now “only” more than 500.
Typing “censor” in the search bar here brought https://lemmybefree.net/, even if it’s not perfect.

I.m.o., instances should never be allowed to ban anyone sitewide, even temporarily(, except for spamming/bot accounts). Or why not some of them explicitly stating that they want to represent a group of users, and reserving themselves the right to ban a user hurting their reputation, but they should be in minority.
Communities should also never be allowed to permaban, and a one-year ban should be the maximum, but only after, e.g., at least 3 one-month bans, themselves preceded with a demand to simply edit the comment/post.

Another really awesome thing with Lemmy that i love, compared to reddit, is their modlog : moderators explain publicly the reason for banning someone, and have to display the censored comment.
Meanwhile, not only will reddit moderators usually won’t even give you an explanation, sometimes even if you send them a d.m., but reddit won’t even warn you that your comment or post has been shadowbanned/censored, i systematically have to double-check with other accounts, and one day i may have to use VPNs if they begin to shadowban you according to your IP adress.

Anyway, you posted hundreds of comments for something like 18h straight or more, and it doesn’t seem like it was a pleasant experience, i hope that you’ll have more success/fun next time :) !

I wonder how many people you managed to get banned after reporting them

(edit : just saw that it’s only 3 days, ok then)

Yo, congratulation on getting him banned, you did it !

Asshole.

Then the first part(, leaving the choice of blocking an instance to the user,) is a relatively common desire since i’ve already seen it expressed before. If enough people keep asking for it then it may happen.
I’m making a lemmy app and among other things you’ll be able to follow (a group of )users and not only (a group of )communities, sthg reddit will end up adopting probably. And you’ll also be able to display the “All” tab with multiple accounts. So, if you have an account on lemmy.world, as well as on the instances blocked by lemmy.world, then you’ll be able to have access to all instances at once.
You can see the instances blocked by going to sh.itjust.works/instances, or lemmy.ml/instances, and as you can see only very little instances, for spamming i think, were blocked. Which means that you’re probably already seeing ~99% of lemmy in your “All” tab ?

It doesn’t solve the presence of moderators in communities but that may be kinda out-of-topic from your original subject.

(i’m going to sleep r.n., so don’t be surprised if i don’t answer before tomorrow, not that there’s necessarily something to add, but you seemed to go further than being able to talk with all instances from any instance of origin)

To do that, would it be enough if instances can’t block each other, or if users could unblock the foreign instances blocked by their original instance ?
You’d also want some .onion instances, and that they could communicate with those using the DNS.
Am i missing something ? You seem to also have more to say

Nah, i’m stupid sorry, it was a quote from a post by David Rovics, i should have put the «…», my bad.
He’s the only anti-imperialist singer i know, along with Red Creators Network, worth checking out i think :)

I’m saying Lemmy’s censorship is the same as reddit’s because we still have roughly the same groups as on reddit.
I still post to about the same audience or smaller, not bigger than peak reddit.

If these two sentences are meant to be understood together, then it’s misleading to use the word censorship i think, it’s more a mix of a lack of visibility and echo chambers, in which case these are two things that don’t seem debatable/false.
If i understood you correctly, could you expand on your solution ?

From what i understood :

• When you’re critcizing the incomplete/broken system of federation, would it be enough if instances can’t block each other(, even if you’d probably don’t mind if users can block instances) ? I’ve seen that same thought in /c/fediverse a few times, along the lines of being able to access a real “All” tab ;
• Instances shouldn’t communicate through DNS because authorities could block it, hence why you’re suggesting to use Tor, it’d make Lemmy a.n free/unconstrained network ;
• You’re making a mistake i.m.o. when stating that Lemmy will become censored like Reddit, because you can’t have the same Lemmy admins for all instances. So, while Reddit banned republicans and communists, it can’t be done for Lemmy(, unless through national/federal laws). You probably already knew that, just in case(, bonus by the devs) ;
• It feels like the core of your speech ? In any case, i’m missing almost all of what’s surrounding it hence the comment above.

What do you imagine the outcome of that would be?

Depends, i haven’t understood what he talked about, and neither have you. What if it’s a moderation made by the user h.er.im.self, while taking into account the vote of users with the same “tags”/preferences as him ? That’s not his idea but other methods are possible, in any case it’s aiming for an ideal of freedom, it’s left to us to see the best path in attaining it, and internet is still in its infancy.

Almost everyone in this thread opposed him bar a few people.

And they didn’t understood what he said, and you’re always answering aside

I’ve read less than half of the comments here, but my main feeling is that the downvotes only happened because they didn’t understood what you said, in their mind you want something even less censored than 4Chan, which will lead to something even worse than 4Chan, they believe that moderation helps in healthy discussions.
I’ve got reserves on that, for example mods should only ask for the user to edit h.er.is comment instead of instabanning them for life, and as i said elsewhere our states don’t only ask platforms but are making laws to “moderate” the internet.

But that’s not what you were talking about, these downvotes should tell you that your thought hasn’t matured enough to be presented as a clear project, like here :

I will not be spinning up instances of anything. I will seed hashes in bittorrent-like P2P networks, I will put my posts where they fit, I will look for posts from others in the most anti-censorship ways I can find, and I will hope devs and server admins create a version of Lemmy that’s fitting for more of my posts - while hurrying toward a possible future where Tor isn’t enough to make Lemmy relevant anymore, because P2P networks become the only place worth posting anything.

At first i was furious because i thought that many people opposed freedom of expression, but after reading more comments i’m relieved that it’s still seen favorably by a majority.
The problem here seems to be that your “vision” isn’t clear enough, and that’s probably why you wanted to discuss it with others. The good news is that people didn’t oppose your ideas

It’s a bit late in France so i don’t intend to stay much more online(, and you’ve been at it for more than 12 hours), even if i’d be interested in your answer because i frankly still don’t understand you, sry :/

(you must feel powerful to write that, it’s fortunate that the mods only censored one of his comments)

Then ask him if that’s indeed why he talked about Tor, i.d.k. 🤷

His original post states « it just gets blocked instantly and easily, every time the authorities feel like blocking anything » if that’s any indication

Just like terrorism apologia wasn’t applied for all citizens, give them some time to enforce an already existing legislation, they still don’t have all the tools but it’s coming together.
Usually they ask the platforms to do the censorship for them.
Anyway, that’s perhaps why he mentioned Tor, i.d.k.

Yes you can.

Are you still speaking about state/national/federal laws ? Because you can’t, and these laws expect every platform to comply, it’ll probably be automated and only ignored for a while until really applied, or only if necessary in some contexts

Oh, so he wants it remained criminalised - but people shouldn’t remove it from their websites if someone posts it?

I think it should be censored, and can’t defend him if i don’t understand his p.o.v. here.
But he clearly states that those doing it should be found and prosecuted.

Okay, and you don’t need TOR to make a lemmy instance where there is no censorship of political opinion.

That’s a difference from reddit where you can’t escape the reddit admins.
But he’s probably mentioning Tor because you can’t escape from national/federal laws on Lemmy, and many many laws to restrict our freedom of speech on the internet have been brewing these last years, it’s not only an interdiction of defending our enemies anymore(, terrorism apologia).
Covid led to many bans, each war brings its batch of censored accounts and medias/journalists, TikTok has been bought, and there’s the Digital Service Act, the Online Safety Act, the Network Enforcement Act, …

I don’t tend to look at people charitably who tell me they want child porn decriminalised.

That’s exactly what someone acting in bad faith would say.
You absolutely know without a doubt that he doesn’t want child porn to be decriminalised, i quoted him saying the opposite a few comments ago, yet you’re more obsessed with turning his sentences in a bad way than honestly seeking to understand his p.o.v.

That’s more-or-less the only type of content that he’s referring to here when he wants the Fediverse to embrace TOR. That’s the only stuff it could be legally liable for. That and maybe terrorism and solicitation of pirated content.

That’s interesting, because (edit : it makes me understand your view better, however )that’s not my p.o.v., and he repeatedly, over and over, insisted on the censorship of political opinions, here as well that’s something you really should have known by reading him

He’s been unpleasant to absolutely everyone in this thread repeatedly

Everyone has been unpleasant with him, causes and consequences

makes claims, refuses to back them up

Then he’d be wrong, but no doubt he’d disagree with you and that you’re once again holding an uncharitable view of what he wrote

accuses them of trolling him or acting in ‘bad faith’.

You’re the stereotype of someone acting in bad faith with your stupid obsession on CSAM that refuses to understand what his thoughts are, almost accusing him of secretly being a pedophile all along while he clearly stated his reasons/fears

What good is there to see here?

His ideals

I don’t see the conversation going anywhere, and i don’t know enough of his p.o.v. to defend him, i added an answer 10mns ago because you’re right when you say that CSAM should be banned, and he could have agreed with you if you at least tried to understand why he was opposed to it.

That point had nothing to do with anything. I kept it specifically to CSAM.

And he talked about the risk of a slippery slope

Not sure that’s a good look.

Not sure that refusing to see the good in him gives you a good look

You deserve a better answer, and i can be more clear.
In my opinion, CSAM should be banned and automatically reported to authorities, which is already the law anyway so a website allowing it should be banned, and there’s not enough will to crack on the pedocriminals on Tor(, i don’t believe that people using it are really anonymous unless they use a specific computer), his point was to avoid any slippery slope with simple rules such as “only banning spam”, apart from the other justifications cited above, he also writes « I’m not saying we need to pressure France to arrest a bunch of French film directors for scenes with naked girls as soon as Trump or his replacement finds it politically convenient to label such things as so-called “illegal content.” » here
What he’s scared of is these kind of censorship abuses : when you begin to open the door it’s hard to keep it closed.
I.m.o. he should have kept the concept of a simple rule, while extending it to include CSAM, or instruction on how to make a dirty bomb for example.
You’re right to help him see the limits of the freedom of expression, and while i agree with his fear of censorship excesses while censoring CSAM, i also don’t think that not censoring it is the right solution.
An obvious example of excesses based on good intentions would be censoring “hate speech” or “disinformation”.