“We can’t rewind, we’ve gone too far…”

I wanna poke fun at you for actually having an 8 track, but at this point, culture is auto-cannibalizing, so I think we should just mostly celebrate, and maybe personally archive, what was once good.

Wait untill you hear about loans and regular interest payments lol.

A more refined method of generating consistent, regular cashflow, rofl.

(Ahem, at least in theory, but then when that stops working, surprise! you get a bailout!)

… But yeah, the natural evolution we should expect is that MSFT (or Hulu or any other sub based service) will soon or at least eventually partner with something like klarna to offer 3-6 month payment loan options … for every recurring monthly subscription payment.

Think about it.

What that means is that… well, if you cancel on month 5, you’re still making payments through month 8, or month 11.

So … should you really go 3 - 6 months paying for not having something?

Or just keep your subscription going?

Loans are literally the OG of ‘dark pattern’, MTX style bullshit, its a perfect match made in hell.

Hypercapitalism, away!!!

I really do feel terribly for Gen Z and A.

I am old enough that I remeber having to actually memorize phone numbers, used a phone booth a few times, could navigate around my town and generally on highways without a GPS/Map mounted to the dash.

The kids barely ever knew the analog world, and its not like us Millenials are any better parents than ours were.

When the infrastructure starts to give out, from climate disasters, or people can’t afford it any more due to economic depression…

A bunch of people are basically going to go into withdrawl and become feral.

Why think, why learn? AI does it for you!

Untill that service is no longer available in your area.

Black Mirror?

Oh, you mean the phone you hold in front of your face all the time, everyday, right?

When the screen’s not on… literally black, glossy, relflective…

Please tell me I am not the only person who immediately made that association when that show came out.

The people who run social media sites knew all the stuff in your 2nd paragraph would happen from about 2010 onward.

I… remember reading blogs of people working for them, explaining how a human brain can’t really handle knowing or having more than roughly 50 to 100 friends, after some threshold is passed, your brain switches into another mode of social thinking.

… And they knew that, and so much more, and exploited the fuck out of literally everyone, first to sell ads, then they realized data was the new oil.

Yeah, basically, social media was a mistake.

Algos will always naturally ‘conclude’ that the best way to drive engagement is to promote things that make people paranoid and angry, and speak to their insecurities, and make them worse.

Now we can literally buy an AI neck pendant friend for $99, for people who are so pathetic and so in need of validation they will just literally buy a simulacra of a friend, because socialization itself has been destroyed.

We are living through a kind of cyberpunk dystopia somehow more insidious and fundamentally debasing of what it even means to be human than any author I’ve read predicted or warned against.

My response so far has been ‘the only winning move is not to play’, I will never tie my real identity directly to any web presence ever again, nuked all my shit, everywhere, when Cambridge Analytica broke.

They have been social engineering with supercomputers for a decade now, and it is more or less making them so much money they literally do not know what to do with it, as it hollows out everyone and everything, acts as gasoline on their accelerationist fire.

… call this a parasocial relationship if you want, but I miss David Bowie.

Ooooh, ok.

I would think that them just getting rid of much of their discussion ‘zones’ would be something they could do without pissing off the fascists, and also just being a net good in general…

… whereas if they kept all their steam groups and discussion forums, but instead, specifically began to more heavily moderate / remove right wing extremists from those discussion zones, I would think that would be much more likely to piss off the fascists.

Basically, I don’t think the fascists in government really even understand fully what Steam is, everything it does, but, if they heard it was cracking down specifically on fascists, that would draw more heat to them than if they just removed features which are, imo, just a net negative anyway.

I’m glad its helped you, but every time I am so desperate as to end up at the Steam Comm pages looking for help, I am met by a bunch of overconfident idiots explaining solutions to problems I did not describe, or just people telling me it isn’t a problem, it can be fixed by uninstslling my soul from my body, etc.

I don’t follow.

You initially said whales who buy tons of games, I assume you mean individuals with 1000+ games on their steam account, buys all the dlc and mtx and loot crates, that kind of whale.

Now you are reffering to… the US government as a whale?

What are you suggesting… be done?

… and by whom?

Are you suggesting Valve functionally commit hara-kiri by … some kind of intentionally angering the fascist government?

What are you suggesting, that Valve fund investigators to link Steam accounts to other platforms and websites, and then… report that knowledge to… the government?

They wouldn’t do anything other than sue Valve out of existence for being antifa.

Valve cannot like… arrest people, issue themselves search warrants, … and if they did set up a system to do something like this, kablamo, now it is instantly turned around to hunt down trans people after Valve is sued into a government buy out or being purchased by fucking Larry Ellison.

Please, explain to me what you are trying to suggest, I don’t get it.

It literally is not Valve’s problem to handle what goes on off their platform.

If somebody wants to attempt that, uh, good luck? The US is currently run by fascists, all the fascists in government probably are not going to prioritize policing younger, dumber fascists.

If you just put all this burden on Steam, what you end up with is Steam gets massively censored in way more ways than just discussion forums.

But yes, I agree, I say, also just get rid of Steam Groups, entirely.

Just, boink, gone, don’t need em.

Nobody ever uses them for anything serious, they are basically always shit post zones, at best.

Thats what I meant where I elsewhere more or less said ‘nuke everything that isn’t your personal profile and stuff you publish personally’.

Sure, keep some ability for commenting on like, user’s screenshots, stuff people upload to the workshop, mods, comprehensive guides.

But, its the uploader’s job to moderate them, just offer something like ‘hold all comments for personal vetting or keyword filter scan’ before they appear.

Pretty sure those options already exist in other contexts on Steam, but yeah, I am fully down with Steam just cleaning house on almost everything.

I also think that asking for more serious moderation on more platforms is a good idea, but the problem is always going to be having the resources to do that, as well as uh, facsists aren’t going to investigate themselves.

Only other paradigm is to basically require a kind of NetID that either is your government ID or is tied directly to it, for all kinds of public discussion software, and once you do that, well, again, the government is fascists, so now if you criticize them, off to jail for you.

You don’t need to ban whales on steam who have tons of games.

Just get rid of or massively downsize steam community forums and group discussions.

They don’t need to exist.

Whales can still be whales and write an angry game review or whatever, but we don’t need discussion forums on Steam for every possible fucking thing.

I pretty much agree, I literally cannot think of a single time me engaging with the Steam forums has resulted in anything good at all.

Best case scenario you get absolute idiots who know nothing about how games work acting like they do, worst case scenario you run into something akin to Terrorgram.

https://www.propublica.org/article/telegram-terrorgram-collective-bratislava-murders-neo-nazi-online-hate

EDIT:

I was completely serious in my other post when I said 99.9% of steam forums are worse than worthless.

Just say, hey, everything in any steam forum, discussion group, basically anything other than comments on steam workshop stuff and guides and your own posted screenshots and your own profile… yep, in 90 days, it all goes away, make your backups now, if you want to, here’s a tool thingy to do that.

We have other platforms for lengthier discussions now, if a game wants to run its own community, fucking buy a domain, set up some forums, set up a discord, a reddit, a lemmy, whatever, do it yourself, its not worth steam potentially getting nuked or massively censored because it allows basicslly auto generated forums for every half baked idiot that makes some game.

Because of the group that they exemplified in the paper, the top 3 games that were common to right wing social circles on Steam were:

Counterstrike 2

HOI 4

Garry’s Mod

Now, this isn’t the same as saying ‘everyone who plays this game is a right wing extremeist’, its not that kind of analysis, but it is saying that if you are a right wing extremeist, these games are games you probably play.

You could however do some napkin math based on daily player counts and realize that CS2 has way, waaay more players than HOI4 or Gmod, and then realize that there likely are a disproportionate number of HOI4 and Gmod players who are right wing extremists, as compared to many other games.

The paper specifically says:

While most of these games are commonly played among all types of users, Hearts of Iron IV (HOI4) is an important exception. HOI4 is a strategy game developed by Paradox Interactive in 2016, and it was originally played primarily by hardcore strategy gamers.

However, since its launch, neo-Nazi and neo-fascist communities have increasingly adopted it as a symbol. Far-right communities have embraced the ability to play as Nazis and fascists in HOI4, and they have particularly celebrated the ability to create speculative fiction via the built-in story and user-created mods (White and Lamphere-Englund, 2024; Newhouse and Kowert, 2024).

Frankly, as a HOI4 enjoyer myself… they’re not wrong, go try to follow all the drama behind the New Order mod, and you will probably see what I mean.

And also, as a former Gmod player, I can absolutely personally tell you all about Nazis and grooming in roleplay servers, as I am unfortunate enough to have crossed paths with Spartan5150/ParadymShyft many times, to the point that I could easily doxx him and tell you his real name, just off the top of my head.

If you don’t know what I’m talking about: He’s a Nazi pedophile with a penchant for grooming underage girls and sending them pics of his oddly shaped cock, and then baiting them into sending him their nudes, and then him holding those over their heads to force them to keep doing weird RP shit… who then went on to be the lead community manager for “The Isle”, ostensibly an attempt to make some kind of ‘live as a dinosaur’ multiplayer simulation type game.

Anyway, here’s the full table from the study, the paper this article is clumsily based on:

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2025.1586566/pdf

That should be the whole paper, at least where I am (US), they seem to just be giving it away for free, probably because it is a ‘headline’ paper for this edition of this journal.

Slava Ukraini.

EDIT:

Aha, your avatar.

Well agent, don’t forget:

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2025.1586566/full

The actual paper.

The title here from PCGamesN is rather bad, in the sense of being misleading:

No, its not really the ‘store’ part of Steam that is plauged with insane harassment of all kinds.

They’ve actually put a good deal of effort into trying to tackle things like review bombing and removing horrendous stuff you’d see on an actual storefront page.

This article somehow completely fails to explain that Steam is basically also a ‘social media’ type of platform, where users have personal pages and can comment on and message each other, form groups, form their own miniforums, etc etc.

Describing all of this in totality as ‘a store’ would be like describing TikTok as a store.

But, that aside, yes, the ‘Steam community’ has always been an insane shit show where if you just deleted 99.9% of it, nothing of value would be lost.

Why is this the case?

Because Valve does not want to hire an army of tens to hundreds of thousands of offshore, human content moderators, which… is what you would have to do to adequately police all of this, its what Facebook and other large social media platforms do.

Sure, they’ll tell you they use AI or some advanced algorithm.

Even today, that is still mostly a lie.

Its always been somewhere between an army of offshore moderators getting paid slave wages and getting PTSD from their jobs, and something like a mechanical turk.

… But yeah, anyone who’s been using Steam since the early days knows that the Steam community is largely cancer and should generally be avoided.

Also, this PCGamesN article incorrectly describes the NGOs and the ADL specifically as a ‘target’.

The paper literally never describes the ADL or any other NGO or group as a direct target of these right wing groups.

What the paper actually says is that the ADL has conducted multiple of their own similar studies to try to understand social dynamics and extremism and harassment on Steam, which this paper cites and mentions.

It also says that a commonly identifiable attribute of a right wing extremist group is that they declare themselves as enemies of the ADL… but there is nothing in the paper that describes these groups actually targetting the ADL itself with… some kind of specific threats or harassment or anything directed precisely at, or specifically targetting, the ADL or other NGOs… the paper also at one point mentions that the ATF is also often specifically identified as an enemy of these right wing groups, as well as just Steam Moderators themselves.

Its a way of right wing virtue signalling to say ‘Fuck the ADL’ along with Nazi / Nordic symbology, 9/11 conspiracy theories etc.

The main focus of the paper is actually to describe the mechanics and attributes of what the authors describe as performative infighting amongst right wing extremist groups on Steam.

The paper specifically notes:

The first systematic review of extremist behavior on Steam was presented in Anti-Defamation League (2024).

…

The publication of this report appears to have induced Valve to more widely ban explicit neo-Nazi and white supremacist behavior, but extremist cliques and groups are still easily discoverable across Steam’s social features.

IE, Valve took the ADL’s report seriously, Valve is moving more heavily against explicit right wing extremism, but the problem still persists, and this paper shows ways of identifying and diagnosing the problem, presumably so as to also convince Valve to maybe consider these methods themselves.

From the article:

…the study shows that neo-fascist groups are using Valve’s platform to start “wars,” with a focus on recruiting new members and organizing harassment against various opposing groups.

These targets, which include everything from other Steam populations to NGOs like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), are branded as “enemies,” while other affiliated groups are considered “allies.” Bradley-Newhouse and Kowert conclude that neo-fascism is on the rise on Valve’s platform, and that current moderation systems aren’t doing much to stop it.

Phrasing enemy-based identifiers that right wing groups use to instead be “targets” is a significant mischaracterization of what the paper actually says.

The article totally fails to mention that these “wars” are infighting between right wing groups and clusters of right wing groups, fighting amongst themselves.

Literally nowhere in the paper does it describe these right wing groups actually “organizing harassment” directly against their self-identified enemy “targets”.

That is not what the paper is about, but the phrasing in article strongly gives the impression that it is.

It is, again, about virtue signalling and infighting amongst right wing groups on Steam, and how understanding how that works can be helpful in identifying the most dedicated right wing extremeists on Steam.

In conclusion, this article was written by an illiterate idiot, either that or they are significantly selective with presenting or not presenting context, and are deliberately being overly alarmist.

Please read the actual paper instead.

Anyway, anecdotally, yeah, it does track with my own experience that Garrys Mod and HOI4 players are considerably more likely to be fascist extremists than players of many other games.

There we go, there, that actually makes sense to me, thank you!

I want to know what a corpo hobbyist traditionalist language is though, lol.

Like uh… I make vba / excel macros in my spare time for fun, lol?

I don’t know, but I do suspect ‘big angry bacon’ is soon gonna be on a lot more people’s menus, lol.

mild confusion, followed by"YEEHAW!!", followed by excited aerial gunfire

Armadillos! …

… versus! …

Feral Hogs!

F I G H T !

Yeah thats called you realizing your CEO is scamming the entire business and running it as a franchise that he somehow is both in charge of and also not fully legally / financially responsible for.

That reminds me of how a huge part of why SEARS went out of business was because they broke each building up into the floor space sections per department that each ran as their own mini psuedo businesses and effectively had to pay footage based rent to that building’s GM…

As opposed to, you know, a business leveraging synergies, fostering teamwork and having a solid central leadership… nah, fuck all that, each SEARS location is now its own marketplace of competing fiefdoms, all the departments hate all the other departments, central command is now just Pontius Pilate washing his hands over all the bloodshed he oversees.

IMO that kind of set up should just be illegal, its fraud with extra steps.

Oh you mean literally steal the source code?

Unfortunately I regret to inform you that this thing called IP Law exists and that definitely is ‘stealing’.

Heck, even reverse engineering from stolen, but ultimately not directly used source code… generally also ‘stealing’.

But uh yeah, Excel definitely does not have a publically available repo that can be forked.

Sure, you could I guess hack into MSFT and leak the source code, but if you live anywhere that has an extradition treaty with the US, you are going to jail forever.

… LibreOffice Calc provides a less risky alternative to this.

Like, sure, I generally agrer with your opinions, but our opinions are not the actual state of how the world works.