Random distribution in a game is fine, the problem is entirely being able to use cash to get them. The solution is very simple, as you’ve pointed out, hundreds of games have already figured out less predatory ways to add content and keep a game alive.
The cash for randomization is fundamentally what makes it so insidious. Everything you’ve mentioned is wildly preferable to paid mystery bullshit. Seasonal outfits, battle passes, whatever. If you know what you’re getting before you choose to buy it, that’s your choice.
The part you can’t quite get is the outright advantage that loot boxes will sometimes give people decent stuff without having to grind, which all the current alternatives don’t do. I’d take randomized tables over mandatory grind any day, but I certainly don’t want to ban either.
This is the most Stockholm Syndrome shit I’ve seen on here. You do realize that the grind only exists to push people into buying the bullshit right? Games should be fun to play, with rewards coming regularly from normal play. If you’re ‘grinding’ through a mess of bullshit to avoid paying, or if you’re paying to skip the grind, then why are you bothering to play a game you don’t actually like playing? A little grind is understandable and fun, I’m looking forward to a little boss farming in BL4 later tonight. But that’s the fun part of the game, playing it and hoping to get something good.
I did not say “less predatory”. I don’t agree that current trends on monetization are any more or less predatory than loot boxes. Hell, you don’t seem to think they’re any more or less predatory, either, given your assessment of grind.
I think you may have misread the point I was making. You should give that quote block another look.
But to reiterate, no, it’s not “wildly preferable” to grind through a battlepass than to have loot boxes. I prefer loot boxes, honestly. I know I’m not gonna grind to the end of a pass each season, even in the games I do pay regularly, so I would much rather have a randomized pull and get something fun every now and then.
And of course that’s all for incidental engagement reward nonsense, which is pointless anyway, paid loot boxes are fundamental to certain games. I liked CCGs when they were made with paper and I still do now. If you ask me I’d much rather have the randomized mishmash of decks you get from loot box-driven Hearthstone than the rigid meta you get in Marvel Snap because they are bending over backwards to still monetize just as hard while not having randomization because people keep whining about it.
And hey, you don’t have to play Hearthstone if you don’t want to, and if people are concerned about the effect on kids that’s what age ratings are for, doesn’t affect me. But I don’t think it should be banned and I sure as hell don’t think the alternative is “wildly preferable” at all. You don’t have to agree, but that cuts both ways, and I don’t appreciate people trying to make their preference a matter of law.
I understood your point, I just don’t agree. There’s a fundamental difference in how it psychologically affects people, and your insistence that lootboxes aren’t that bad kinda just lends credence to my point.
Let’s not pretend either of us has any influence at all over what becomes law. Our stupid debate will certainly never affect a damn thing regardless. If I was writing laws, it’d be a very different place and general and I’m sure you wouldn’t like most of my ideas. I can complain all I want, nobody is listening anyway.
Regardless, I’ve enjoyed the spirited debate and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion!
Hah. I like the witch trial logic there. “If you like this thing it proves the thing is evil brainwashing because nobody would like it otherwise”. May as well dunk them in water and see if they drown.
The thing is, this sort of online panic has absolutely had an influence. The industry has moved away from lootboxes, even in cases where they make sense (see the Marvel Snap example) because they’ve become terrible PR, and the panic has led to multiple countries exploring new regulations or applying existing gambling regulations, whether that makes sense or not.
So you don’t have a lot of influence, but you definitely have some, and the unintended consequences of that influence lead to things like Brazil being on track to roll out invasive age checking procedures in gaming spaces without getting much pushback from the wider international gaming public because they’re all too excited about the anti-loot box lip service they’ve added on the side.
So maybe don’t let yourself too off the hook. There was a slippery slope here and you are one of many gleefully going “weeee!” on the way down. Your aggressive stance here sure had more of an impact than all the “told you sos” I’m about to send if and when Steam starts requiring people provide some type of personal ID to log in.
Random distribution in a game is fine, the problem is entirely being able to use cash to get them. The solution is very simple, as you’ve pointed out, hundreds of games have already figured out less predatory ways to add content and keep a game alive.
The cash for randomization is fundamentally what makes it so insidious. Everything you’ve mentioned is wildly preferable to paid mystery bullshit. Seasonal outfits, battle passes, whatever. If you know what you’re getting before you choose to buy it, that’s your choice.
This is the most Stockholm Syndrome shit I’ve seen on here. You do realize that the grind only exists to push people into buying the bullshit right? Games should be fun to play, with rewards coming regularly from normal play. If you’re ‘grinding’ through a mess of bullshit to avoid paying, or if you’re paying to skip the grind, then why are you bothering to play a game you don’t actually like playing? A little grind is understandable and fun, I’m looking forward to a little boss farming in BL4 later tonight. But that’s the fun part of the game, playing it and hoping to get something good.
I did not say “less predatory”. I don’t agree that current trends on monetization are any more or less predatory than loot boxes. Hell, you don’t seem to think they’re any more or less predatory, either, given your assessment of grind.
I think you may have misread the point I was making. You should give that quote block another look.
But to reiterate, no, it’s not “wildly preferable” to grind through a battlepass than to have loot boxes. I prefer loot boxes, honestly. I know I’m not gonna grind to the end of a pass each season, even in the games I do pay regularly, so I would much rather have a randomized pull and get something fun every now and then.
And of course that’s all for incidental engagement reward nonsense, which is pointless anyway, paid loot boxes are fundamental to certain games. I liked CCGs when they were made with paper and I still do now. If you ask me I’d much rather have the randomized mishmash of decks you get from loot box-driven Hearthstone than the rigid meta you get in Marvel Snap because they are bending over backwards to still monetize just as hard while not having randomization because people keep whining about it.
And hey, you don’t have to play Hearthstone if you don’t want to, and if people are concerned about the effect on kids that’s what age ratings are for, doesn’t affect me. But I don’t think it should be banned and I sure as hell don’t think the alternative is “wildly preferable” at all. You don’t have to agree, but that cuts both ways, and I don’t appreciate people trying to make their preference a matter of law.
I understood your point, I just don’t agree. There’s a fundamental difference in how it psychologically affects people, and your insistence that lootboxes aren’t that bad kinda just lends credence to my point.
Let’s not pretend either of us has any influence at all over what becomes law. Our stupid debate will certainly never affect a damn thing regardless. If I was writing laws, it’d be a very different place and general and I’m sure you wouldn’t like most of my ideas. I can complain all I want, nobody is listening anyway.
Regardless, I’ve enjoyed the spirited debate and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion!
Hah. I like the witch trial logic there. “If you like this thing it proves the thing is evil brainwashing because nobody would like it otherwise”. May as well dunk them in water and see if they drown.
The thing is, this sort of online panic has absolutely had an influence. The industry has moved away from lootboxes, even in cases where they make sense (see the Marvel Snap example) because they’ve become terrible PR, and the panic has led to multiple countries exploring new regulations or applying existing gambling regulations, whether that makes sense or not.
So you don’t have a lot of influence, but you definitely have some, and the unintended consequences of that influence lead to things like Brazil being on track to roll out invasive age checking procedures in gaming spaces without getting much pushback from the wider international gaming public because they’re all too excited about the anti-loot box lip service they’ve added on the side.
So maybe don’t let yourself too off the hook. There was a slippery slope here and you are one of many gleefully going “weeee!” on the way down. Your aggressive stance here sure had more of an impact than all the “told you sos” I’m about to send if and when Steam starts requiring people provide some type of personal ID to log in.