PP was not going to let the US annex us as much as he probably cums all over himself thinking about it. Hell even right now his polling is dogshit and if he tried to actually make Canada a 51st state he’d get crucified(if he didn’t then we’d fucking deserve it anyway).
The NDP is only not an option because we say and act like it isn’t. They run plenty of candidates and a vote cast for them is worth the same as a vote cast for anyone else. The Liberal voters could have just as easily “strategically” voted for the NDP but nooo we always have to vote Liberal as the default. That’s fucking stupid as hell and you can’t ignore that fact and expect me to just go “oh right I forgot that this only works in one direction!”
There is nothing strategic about strategic voting. It is only done when the centrists threaten the left, and it only works in one direction. It’s an obvious trap that we fall for every time because no one actually thinks before they do anything. We could change our behaviour so easily.
Did you know that in the election before last, even with all the shit messaging from the Liberals, the NDP got more than half their votes? They HAVE support even if our system meant that the seats weren’t there. Someone admitting that they didn’t look at the numbers with any depth isn’t a gotcha.
If the NDP had formed government before I’d completely agree. There’s just no way the last election would go to an untested party during a time we’re being threatened by the US, and fascism is building up at our doorstep.
This term is arguably one of the most difficult scenarios for a gov’t to deal with in our history. I don’t blame Canadians for wanting a gov’t that, though both good and bad, has proven they actually can govern.
This election had a lot of the markers of the WWII era when both Canada and the US voted for a gov’t and leader with experience, King and Roosevelt respectively. We didn’t have the option of a tested leader, but we did have the option of a tested party. This effectively removed the NDP as an option.
I do however think you’re right that the things you’re talking about should have been done years before, and we may have effectively screwed ourselves by not making those changes when we had the chance over the last few decades. We may never get that chance again.
My hope is that the NDP elects a strong, charismatic leader and they come out of the gate loud and hard. Scream about social programs, services, taxing corps and the wealthy, and they don’t shut up for the next 3 years.
They’ve shown themselves to be effective during the Liberal’s minority government, and both the Liberals and Conservatives may be “tested” but they have failed those tests to varying degrees.
And then there’s that “charismatic leader” crap. PP was such a dweeby shit-stain that even some Conservatives, such as my dad who surprisingly voted against him, thought he was childish asshole. Trudeau was just attractive but very hollow, and Carney is so fucking bland I still can’t even see him as the PM and he feels more like an “acting PM”. Meanwhile everyone is always saying that the NDP needs to have some uber charismatic leader to deserve any votes and even though Singh was very vocal despite the party’s lack of seats that apparently didn’t count. He didn’t just bend to the Liberals and used the NDP’s power within the minority government to represent their people and to push leftist policy.
Everything you’ve said sounds fine if you don’t look into any further than that. They don’t hold up under any amount of scrutiny.
Being in a position of being needed and using that to their advantage was both smart and good for Canadians. But still a far cry from showing leadership and certainly didn’t show they could handle dealing with a fascist gov’t threatening us.
As far as charisma, I never said it was needed to deserve anything. They don’t need a charismatic leader to be worth voting for, they need one to get people to really listen. This is unfortunate, but it’s the way of the world. Charisma will be needed to convince people to look at the NDP as a real choice. We’ve seen what a lack of it can do to one of the most popular parties in the country, the NDP needs every bonus they can get.
So they show us that they can represent(lead) their people even when it’s diffocult and even when the most power they have is leveraging their very few seats under a minority government and that doesn’t show leadership potential to you? And the Liberals showed us over and over that the most they can be trusted with is not making things massively worse on purpose. And I’m still not forgiving them for promising voting reform to get elected and throwing it out when they learned that if people actually had a real choice they’d likely never win again.
Canadians need to grow up. We sit here absolutely terrified to the point where the Liberals can do whatever they want since no one is paying attention and no one has the slightest spine necessary to stand up against them. They could run a stale bagel against some super charismatic NDP leader and it wouldn’t matter if the voter base is just going to say “I don’t want to vote for them but I need to”. We’re trained like abused dogs to run back to our shitty owners out of fear of retribution.
Dude, I’m not disagreeing with your views, but you’re just proving the point of why the conversation started in the first place; to the vast majority of Canadians, the NDP just weren’t an option. Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir, but I’d be deluding myself if I thought they had a shot this election.
This election, only one thing mattered; stopping the Conservatives. The NDP didn’t even remotely have that shot. The Liberals could, and did, and most voters knew that.
I’ll reiterate the entire point of this convo, the NDP were not an option this time.
How have I proved that the NDP weren’t an option? My entire complaint was that people believe them to not be an option, I’ve never argued that, but that they are intensely wrong about every point that gets brought up in support of their cowardice and/or they should stop lying about the fact that they never wanted to vote for them in the first place. Maybe you lost the plot somewhere along the road here but I’ve been very consistent about why I originally commented and how I’ve been talking about it.
Then again, we’ve already been over that strategic voters aren’t super good at paying attention or keeping the goalposts in one place.
PP was not going to let the US annex us as much as he probably cums all over himself thinking about it. Hell even right now his polling is dogshit and if he tried to actually make Canada a 51st state he’d get crucified(if he didn’t then we’d fucking deserve it anyway).
The NDP is only not an option because we say and act like it isn’t. They run plenty of candidates and a vote cast for them is worth the same as a vote cast for anyone else. The Liberal voters could have just as easily “strategically” voted for the NDP but nooo we always have to vote Liberal as the default. That’s fucking stupid as hell and you can’t ignore that fact and expect me to just go “oh right I forgot that this only works in one direction!”
There is nothing strategic about strategic voting. It is only done when the centrists threaten the left, and it only works in one direction. It’s an obvious trap that we fall for every time because no one actually thinks before they do anything. We could change our behaviour so easily.
Did you know that in the election before last, even with all the shit messaging from the Liberals, the NDP got more than half their votes? They HAVE support even if our system meant that the seats weren’t there. Someone admitting that they didn’t look at the numbers with any depth isn’t a gotcha.
If the NDP had formed government before I’d completely agree. There’s just no way the last election would go to an untested party during a time we’re being threatened by the US, and fascism is building up at our doorstep.
This term is arguably one of the most difficult scenarios for a gov’t to deal with in our history. I don’t blame Canadians for wanting a gov’t that, though both good and bad, has proven they actually can govern.
This election had a lot of the markers of the WWII era when both Canada and the US voted for a gov’t and leader with experience, King and Roosevelt respectively. We didn’t have the option of a tested leader, but we did have the option of a tested party. This effectively removed the NDP as an option.
I do however think you’re right that the things you’re talking about should have been done years before, and we may have effectively screwed ourselves by not making those changes when we had the chance over the last few decades. We may never get that chance again.
My hope is that the NDP elects a strong, charismatic leader and they come out of the gate loud and hard. Scream about social programs, services, taxing corps and the wealthy, and they don’t shut up for the next 3 years.
They’ve shown themselves to be effective during the Liberal’s minority government, and both the Liberals and Conservatives may be “tested” but they have failed those tests to varying degrees.
And then there’s that “charismatic leader” crap. PP was such a dweeby shit-stain that even some Conservatives, such as my dad who surprisingly voted against him, thought he was childish asshole. Trudeau was just attractive but very hollow, and Carney is so fucking bland I still can’t even see him as the PM and he feels more like an “acting PM”. Meanwhile everyone is always saying that the NDP needs to have some uber charismatic leader to deserve any votes and even though Singh was very vocal despite the party’s lack of seats that apparently didn’t count. He didn’t just bend to the Liberals and used the NDP’s power within the minority government to represent their people and to push leftist policy.
Everything you’ve said sounds fine if you don’t look into any further than that. They don’t hold up under any amount of scrutiny.
Being in a position of being needed and using that to their advantage was both smart and good for Canadians. But still a far cry from showing leadership and certainly didn’t show they could handle dealing with a fascist gov’t threatening us.
As far as charisma, I never said it was needed to deserve anything. They don’t need a charismatic leader to be worth voting for, they need one to get people to really listen. This is unfortunate, but it’s the way of the world. Charisma will be needed to convince people to look at the NDP as a real choice. We’ve seen what a lack of it can do to one of the most popular parties in the country, the NDP needs every bonus they can get.
So they show us that they can represent(lead) their people even when it’s diffocult and even when the most power they have is leveraging their very few seats under a minority government and that doesn’t show leadership potential to you? And the Liberals showed us over and over that the most they can be trusted with is not making things massively worse on purpose. And I’m still not forgiving them for promising voting reform to get elected and throwing it out when they learned that if people actually had a real choice they’d likely never win again.
Canadians need to grow up. We sit here absolutely terrified to the point where the Liberals can do whatever they want since no one is paying attention and no one has the slightest spine necessary to stand up against them. They could run a stale bagel against some super charismatic NDP leader and it wouldn’t matter if the voter base is just going to say “I don’t want to vote for them but I need to”. We’re trained like abused dogs to run back to our shitty owners out of fear of retribution.
Be serious.
Dude, I’m not disagreeing with your views, but you’re just proving the point of why the conversation started in the first place; to the vast majority of Canadians, the NDP just weren’t an option. Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir, but I’d be deluding myself if I thought they had a shot this election.
This election, only one thing mattered; stopping the Conservatives. The NDP didn’t even remotely have that shot. The Liberals could, and did, and most voters knew that.
I’ll reiterate the entire point of this convo, the NDP were not an option this time.
How have I proved that the NDP weren’t an option? My entire complaint was that people believe them to not be an option, I’ve never argued that, but that they are intensely wrong about every point that gets brought up in support of their cowardice and/or they should stop lying about the fact that they never wanted to vote for them in the first place. Maybe you lost the plot somewhere along the road here but I’ve been very consistent about why I originally commented and how I’ve been talking about it.
Then again, we’ve already been over that strategic voters aren’t super good at paying attention or keeping the goalposts in one place.