In some contexts, yes. However you’ll still likely have to defend charges of manslaughter. You’d have to demonstrate that the actions you took could reasonable be expected to not result in the death of the subject; and that those actions were necessary to prevent receiving grievous bodily injury or death.
and would have the capacity to simply “calm down” once the threat has been stopped.
Lots of people defend themselves without turning their unconscious assailants into pin cushions. You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding how reasonable force is determined. I suggest you read my other comments.
they don’t know if the threat is over,
If you can remove yourself from the situation the threat is over. It’s factually wrong to suggest that people can’t tell when they’ve won a fight.
or if someone else is going to bust in to kill them,
Continuing to inflict damage on an incapacitated assailant logically does nothing to prevent another potential unknown assailant from attacking you.
or if the original attacker will fight back, or if they have a weapon, etc.
Those factors will determine what level of force is reasonable. Unreasonable force generally comes into play after the assailant has been incapacitated.
Courts should be very lenient
You should be thankful you have right to defend yourself at all. Not all countries grant that to their citizens. The logical limitation of that right is that defending yourself does not permit you to “counter-assault” others.
Assault in Canada doesn’t require them to hit you first. It includes threats with the ability to follow through. So you may preemptively strike to end an altercation without being charged for assault. HOWEVER, the average male is 28,000% less effective in combat than they think they are. So it’s generally a poor option for untrained individuals… as shit gets out of hand. Pre-emptively striking to end the fight early only works if you can actully do that.
Damn as an American whose frame of reference is, “if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I shoot them dead it’s likely going to be called justifiable - period” it’s wild to see this.
Like, I’m not saying it’s good that we basically have a mentality of “yo if someone comes into your house you can blast em” as a people … But it’s interesting how divergent the views are.
I hear my back door kicked in at 3 in the morning, I put on my glasses and load my pistol. My bedroom door opens, there’s a man with a knife. I fire one round. That round pierces his heart and he dies on the spot. Justifiable force.
Instead, I fired two or three rounds in quick succession, because one round might miss or fail to stop him. Very likely justifiable force. Like any person wouldn’t pull the trigger a couple times in that scenario, right?
Instead, I fire one round. It hits him in the chest and does serious damage to one lung. He drops the knife, staggers into my living room and collapses. If I shoot him again to finish him in that state, that’s murder.
I recommend against breaking into houses on this continent.
We actually had an octogenarian here in the States just get charged for doing something almost exactly like this. Two people, guy and woman, and the woman was pregnant. He waited in the garage, where they broke in last time, waited in the dark, shot them while they were running away and the pregnant woman was so alive pleading for her and her unborn’s life when he shot her again. He freely admitted this and was not arrested at first until public outcry, which should have been completely unnecessary given the confession. Cops in America are a special breed of stupid.
Edit: we are so fucked. This actually happened in LA California, and he was never arrested. Happened in 2015
If I shoot him again to finish him in that state, that’s murder.
That’s how our laws work to, just you’d need a license to have that gun. You can beat someone’s ass in self defense but if you lay the boots in after they’re out cold that’s its own crime.
Guarantee that’s the situation here. The fact that the RCMP are withholding details indicates they have a serious case against the guy.
There is no legal way to have a gun and ammunition that accessible in Canada. In the time it would take you to retrieve both and then load a legally stored gun your home invader could have had a coffee.
Also keeping some other weapon nearby, like a bat by the door, constitutes some kind of premeditation to using it as a weapon.
Self defence laws in Canada are extremely restrictive given the increase in car jacking and home invasions to steal cars.
There is no legal way to have a gun and ammunition that accessible in Canada.
Have you met an RPAL carrier? “Better tried by 12 than carried by 6” is kind of their mantra. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that I know 100% have loaded guns stashed in their residence (no kids).
Also keeping some other weapon nearby, like a bat by the door, constitutes some kind of premeditation to using it as a weapon.
My baseball bat is always in the hallway with my baseball and glove. How you articulate your actions matters. If you incriminate yourself by saying you carry a tool for self defense that’s on you. That’s why lawyers constantly tell you to never talk to the police. What you say can and will be used against you. They are not your friend just because you perceive yourself to be the victim.
Self defence laws in Canada are extremely restrictive given the increase in car jacking and home invasions to steal cars.
Self =! cars and property. Your right to defend yourself or others doesn’t give you the right to assault someone taking your ps5. Can you see how extending self defense rights to property would be a very slippery slope?
Have you met an RPAL carrier? “Better tried by 12 than carried by 6” is kind of their mantra. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that I know 100% have loaded guns stashed in their residence (no kids).
I have, they keep their firearm and ammo locked up, they never transport their firearm anywhere but to and from the range and they never load or discharge it anywhere but at the range.
Having to make the decision between jail time or death is a failure on the part of Canada. The police can kill you because they felt “their life or the lives of other officers were in danger,” a person in their home should be held to the same standard.
Can you see how extending self defense rights to property would be a very slippery slope?
For sure but I was talking about the increase in criminals attacking people directly, in their vehicle or home, in order to get that vehicle. You have no option to backoff when you are part one of their two part plan.
If someone breaks into your house and starts cramming your home theater into a sack then no, you should not be free to kill them but you should be able to threaten or use violence to remove them from your home. The police will not come in time, if at all. Telling people that they have to just sit there and watch the thousands of hours they burn at work get taken from them without recourse is insane.
It definitely does feel like human life is not valued as much as it should be, can certainly agree there.
Especially here in the USA I get the feeling that we’re all just widgets in the grand machination of Capitalism destroying our world. I wish there was more we all could do but the people in power who could help seem intent to burn it all down at this point.
Yeah and to be fair it’s not like Canada is much better, but in cases like this one I don’t find it ridiculous that the appropriate use of force is investigated.
I’m sure this person won’t ultimately end up in jail (the same people in arms over this would also be the first to point out how “lenient” our criminal justice system is…), and if the facts of the matter do show unnecessary force or cruelty (like stabbing an unconscious person) then I feel that it would be justified.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to paint you with a broad brush I know the average American I interact with is more like me than not, but I’m grateful for the slightly higher valuing of human life here
Hey, we elected Trump, I also think the average American blows hard. But I was born here and live here and can’t just up and leave in my current circumstances so I just try to do my best to get by.
It’s a trying time right now around the world and we’re not making it easier for the average person.
In some contexts, yes. However you’ll still likely have to defend charges of manslaughter. You’d have to demonstrate that the actions you took could reasonable be expected to not result in the death of the subject; and that those actions were necessary to prevent receiving grievous bodily injury or death.
Lots of people defend themselves without turning their unconscious assailants into pin cushions. You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding how reasonable force is determined. I suggest you read my other comments.
If you can remove yourself from the situation the threat is over. It’s factually wrong to suggest that people can’t tell when they’ve won a fight.
Continuing to inflict damage on an incapacitated assailant logically does nothing to prevent another potential unknown assailant from attacking you.
Those factors will determine what level of force is reasonable. Unreasonable force generally comes into play after the assailant has been incapacitated.
You should be thankful you have right to defend yourself at all. Not all countries grant that to their citizens. The logical limitation of that right is that defending yourself does not permit you to “counter-assault” others.
Assault in Canada doesn’t require them to hit you first. It includes threats with the ability to follow through. So you may preemptively strike to end an altercation without being charged for assault. HOWEVER, the average male is 28,000% less effective in combat than they think they are. So it’s generally a poor option for untrained individuals… as shit gets out of hand. Pre-emptively striking to end the fight early only works if you can actully do that.
Damn as an American whose frame of reference is, “if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I shoot them dead it’s likely going to be called justifiable - period” it’s wild to see this.
Like, I’m not saying it’s good that we basically have a mentality of “yo if someone comes into your house you can blast em” as a people … But it’s interesting how divergent the views are.
I hear my back door kicked in at 3 in the morning, I put on my glasses and load my pistol. My bedroom door opens, there’s a man with a knife. I fire one round. That round pierces his heart and he dies on the spot. Justifiable force.
Instead, I fired two or three rounds in quick succession, because one round might miss or fail to stop him. Very likely justifiable force. Like any person wouldn’t pull the trigger a couple times in that scenario, right?
Instead, I fire one round. It hits him in the chest and does serious damage to one lung. He drops the knife, staggers into my living room and collapses. If I shoot him again to finish him in that state, that’s murder.
I recommend against breaking into houses on this continent.
We actually had an octogenarian here in the States just get charged for doing something almost exactly like this. Two people, guy and woman, and the woman was pregnant. He waited in the garage, where they broke in last time, waited in the dark, shot them while they were running away and the pregnant woman was so alive pleading for her and her unborn’s life when he shot her again. He freely admitted this and was not arrested at first until public outcry, which should have been completely unnecessary given the confession. Cops in America are a special breed of stupid.
Edit: we are so fucked. This actually happened in LA California, and he was never arrested. Happened in 2015
That’s how our laws work to, just you’d need a license to have that gun. You can beat someone’s ass in self defense but if you lay the boots in after they’re out cold that’s its own crime.
Guarantee that’s the situation here. The fact that the RCMP are withholding details indicates they have a serious case against the guy.
There is no legal way to have a gun and ammunition that accessible in Canada. In the time it would take you to retrieve both and then load a legally stored gun your home invader could have had a coffee.
Also keeping some other weapon nearby, like a bat by the door, constitutes some kind of premeditation to using it as a weapon.
Self defence laws in Canada are extremely restrictive given the increase in car jacking and home invasions to steal cars.
Have you met an RPAL carrier? “Better tried by 12 than carried by 6” is kind of their mantra. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that I know 100% have loaded guns stashed in their residence (no kids).
My baseball bat is always in the hallway with my baseball and glove. How you articulate your actions matters. If you incriminate yourself by saying you carry a tool for self defense that’s on you. That’s why lawyers constantly tell you to never talk to the police. What you say can and will be used against you. They are not your friend just because you perceive yourself to be the victim.
Self =! cars and property. Your right to defend yourself or others doesn’t give you the right to assault someone taking your ps5. Can you see how extending self defense rights to property would be a very slippery slope?
I have, they keep their firearm and ammo locked up, they never transport their firearm anywhere but to and from the range and they never load or discharge it anywhere but at the range.
Having to make the decision between jail time or death is a failure on the part of Canada. The police can kill you because they felt “their life or the lives of other officers were in danger,” a person in their home should be held to the same standard.
For sure but I was talking about the increase in criminals attacking people directly, in their vehicle or home, in order to get that vehicle. You have no option to backoff when you are part one of their two part plan.
If someone breaks into your house and starts cramming your home theater into a sack then no, you should not be free to kill them but you should be able to threaten or use violence to remove them from your home. The police will not come in time, if at all. Telling people that they have to just sit there and watch the thousands of hours they burn at work get taken from them without recourse is insane.
Yea in Canada we’d just prefer if nobody was shot dead. /s
Americans also don’t see a problem with cops shooting people for simply running away
I definitely have a problem with that.
fair, many of the people might, but the prevailing culture is one that doesn’t really value human life, especially criminals (even suspected ones).
It definitely does feel like human life is not valued as much as it should be, can certainly agree there.
Especially here in the USA I get the feeling that we’re all just widgets in the grand machination of Capitalism destroying our world. I wish there was more we all could do but the people in power who could help seem intent to burn it all down at this point.
Yeah and to be fair it’s not like Canada is much better, but in cases like this one I don’t find it ridiculous that the appropriate use of force is investigated.
I’m sure this person won’t ultimately end up in jail (the same people in arms over this would also be the first to point out how “lenient” our criminal justice system is…), and if the facts of the matter do show unnecessary force or cruelty (like stabbing an unconscious person) then I feel that it would be justified.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to paint you with a broad brush I know the average American I interact with is more like me than not, but I’m grateful for the slightly higher valuing of human life here
Hey, we elected Trump, I also think the average American blows hard. But I was born here and live here and can’t just up and leave in my current circumstances so I just try to do my best to get by.
It’s a trying time right now around the world and we’re not making it easier for the average person.